EP424: Building Fitness Brands That Scale: Franchising, Padel & the Future of Wellness with James Hurlock

This is the High Voltage Business Builders podcast. Daily intelligence for operators…

This is the High Voltage Business Builders podcast. Daily intelligence for operators building brands that last on Amazon, TikTok Shop, Shopify, Walmart, and every channel where demand gets captured. No theory, no gurus, just what's working right now from operators who are in the trenches every single day. Strategy, tactics, real numbers, real mistakes, transparency, everything built with the end in mind, the exit. I'm Neil Toit, let's get into it. Welcome back to the High Voltage Business Builders podcast folks. Before we get into today's guest and episode, if you missed this morning's drop, go check that out. It was episode 401, Amazon's multi-channel launch that just occurred last week at Amazon Accelerate. What it means for your FBA stock, inventory, warehouse, everything around that, go check that out at thevoltagedm.com forward slash podcasts. Or if you wanna get on the daily briefing that goes out every morning, go to voltagedm.com forward slash newsletter and join 8,000 other sellers that listen to those updates that come out every day from the trenches. And so if today I'm gonna be sitting down with James Herlock, we're gonna be talking about Fitura Brands, which is a fitness franchising brand and something called Paddle, Paddle, Paddle, Padoodle. We'll mess with that word here in a second. It's a cousin to pickleball. And you may not have heard about it, but it is one of the fastest growing activities for fun and outside adventure playing on the theme of tennis but just doing it a little differently. And we're gonna talk about that. And then respectfully what James has done in what we call contrast therapy and other things in the fitness stage and just him as a business person, we're gonna unpack what it means to be an entrepreneur, what I consider to be a high voltage business builder and those experiences that he's had along the way for himself, we're gonna unpack those as well as the franchise model that he's working in. So James, welcome to the show, man. Thanks, Dale, appreciate it and great to be here. Awesome, so did I get it right? Is it Paddle or Paddle or Padoodle? I think it's tomato, tomato really and where you come from, what sounds right to you individually, but I think officially it is Paddle. I actually, I was under the impression it was Paddle is that I went to the International Paddle Summit in Barcelona earlier this year and got put in my place very, very quickly by a local who told me it was 100% Paddle, so yeah. Okay, well, they know their stuff, right? And we're gonna say it right, so we don't look, you know, it's new, I didn't hear about it. I'm sure a lot of people on this podcast haven't heard about it yet, maybe a few of you had. I know pickleball is still making its way into the world to some degree as people are changing over courts and things of that nature, but this is interesting. So tell me a little bit more about this and how it's relative to what you do in business now. Yeah, great, so I mean, Paddle first and foremost has been around for many, many, many years since the 60s, born out of Mexico. Officially the fastest growing racquet sport internationally played in over 130 different countries by 35 plus million individuals. So actually, to some extent, yeah, dwarfs pickleball. And for, in my humble opinion, a myriad of reasons, arguably a faster, more athletic game and, you know, community-minded. But, you know, pickleball, again, you know, credit to it, it's, you know, an incredible game, but born out of the US. I think the US, you know, has really got behind it because of that. It's seen exponential growth, double digit growth, fastest growing racquet sport here in the US the last five years. But according to the latest participation report from the SFIA that came out about two weeks back, it has officially been dethroned. So pickleball still growing at 1.3% year over year, but Paddle actually at the very, very top of the list at 14 and a half percent growth. So, yeah, a really great time to be involved with the sport here in the United States. Awesome, so I had no idea it was that large. Thanks for unpacking that. And, you know, it seems to me that here in America we have a certain aspect of sports that we love and other sports don't always get a fair shot as they may do in the rest of the world. And, you know, just most recently that was soccer or football that came to America in a big way. And I think a lot of people were surprised by how popular it was and the kinds of people that are listening to it. And I know a lot of people who traveled here, you know, made the splash on the interwebs with their videos and stuff talking about how different they thought America was. So there's a kind of that weird conundrum. And I know you're not from here in Austin temporarily, hanging out. Have you had any of that experience yourself traveling around? Yeah, the US market fascinates me as a whole. I spent half my life in the Northern beaches of Sydney, Australia, which is why, you know, I would say home is, you know, home is home. Right now I reside in Salt Lake City. I've been there for the last, you know, five years, but, you know, Australia is just at over 27 million people compared to, you know, maybe 350 million here in the US. And the US is often such a trendsetter, you know, first to market, you know, sets the standards in a lot of areas and a lot of ways for the rest of the world. But then you do find these nuggets coming through, you know, such as a soccer, as you mentioned, rugby unions having a moment. There was a game a few days back that's got a lot of interest around it. And now paddle, you know, exponentially coming into the market and picking up very quickly, as I mentioned. So I think the opportunity here in the US is absolutely vast. I mean, a few statistics, we can look at paddle specifically in Spain, you've got a 48 million inhabitants, 17,000 courts. So it's about 2,500 people to a court and, you know, still, you know, performing very, very well. Here in the US actually, Patricio Mansurado came out with a 2026 report, only two days back, you know, credit to him. You know, apparently there's 1,115 courts to be precise as of today in 2026. But if you work that out, it's still, you know, approximately one court to every, you know, 470,000 Americans at this moment in time. So yes, a lesser number of players, you know, adopting and playing the sport today, but the upside, the opportunity is absolutely there if, you know, the US embraces it the way that we think they will. Yeah, so you're really, in the last five years being in Salt Lake, I talked to you on your deck in Park City, which is a beautiful place to hang out with your family, but this is almost, I would say, early stage pickleball, which is still gaining momentum. And your goal is really to kind of make paddleball become the next, maybe even larger opportunity than pickleball. Is that a fair way to say it? I think, again, you can't always be all things to all people. I think it's really important that as a brand and as a business, we understand exactly, you know, what we are and who we're talking to. I think there is going to be absolutely a cross-pollination that excites me very much about the appetite for pickleball players looking for something new. And my, again, in my opinion, not everybody's, I think a lot of pickleball players, especially as the game gets younger and younger, as we have seen from this active aging into sort of Gen Z moving into the sport of pickleball, I think there will come a point in time where a lot of those players are looking for something new, are looking for something a little bit more athletic. And naturally, paddle is that opportunity. And here's that mark for them for a number of reasons. I also think you've got a lot of tennis players, especially the active aging that maybe are struggling with the overhead serve or, you know, potentially, you know, struggling to cover the court in quite a capacity. But again, still looking for a fast-paced, athletic and social environment, that paddle, again, just really resonates with that demographic. So I almost see those two disciplines and those two demographics converging into paddle, like we've seen in a lot of other markets internationally. And again, I just think it's a very big opportunity and a great time to be involved in the space, you know, as of today. So your particular model is the franchising aspect of that, is that correct? Or I wanna not misspeak here, but your goal is to really get people interested in it and build up courts, activities, places, businesses, switching tennis maybe over to, you know, tennis rackets and balls, excuse me. Well, there's different kinds of rackets, obviously. And it does score, as I was reading earlier, similar to tennis, so it has a familiarity to it, right? Yeah, absolutely. A bit of background on Futura Brands, officially we're a multi-modality, multi-brand hold go. The number of these Futura Brands are three individual brands, one being Core Precinct, which is a strength-based, athletic, reformer Pilates. The second being Contrast Theory, which is contrast therapy, infrared sauna, cold plunge and guided protocols with breathwork. And then the last one being Paddle Sweat, which is where we bring those two prior concepts together along with the paddle courts at the back of house to create a really beautiful modern-day country club, performance ecosystem as such, where consumers can access all three, all those beautiful systems under the same roof at one time. So we are the franchise behind that. We have individual franchise ecosystems for each of those brands, separate FDDs and franchise agreements. And we're obviously looking to partner with best-in-class operators across the US at this moment in time to help bring those franchise systems and to some extent that brick and mortar to consumers looking to benefit from them within that particular area or demographic or territory. Awesome. And you said there's just over 1,000 current courts in America, roughly? Yeah, give or take about 1,100 courts here in the US, 296 operators, interesting stat. I think about 26 multi-modality operators operating about 25% of those current courts. So it's a very fragmented industry, said a lot of individual operators and what are classified as passion projects. People with a passion for the sport that are looking to operate those systems, but not really, in my opinion, a household name, anyone with huge brand equity within the space, which again, for me, makes the opportunity even more appealing. So as you're looking for individuals interested, obviously, in the franchising model, how does that work with this kind of business? Obviously, it'd be different. Every franchise is different, whether you're doing pizza, ice cream, or some other kind, or pickle balls. How does it work in your mind in this way for those who are interested? Every franchise concept is different from, again, ice cream through to beverage, through to sports and lifestyle, as an example, but within that franchise system, everything should be exactly the same. I mean, McDonald's, of course, a very obvious one, but a really great example of what a franchise system should look like from that consistency. Now, regardless of where you are in the US, you know when you go through McDonald's, you're going to get that same exact experience, the same digital signage, the same flooring, the same ceiling, the same menu, the same source, and so forth, and it's that expectation that comes from the consumer of that consistency and that brand equity. So, for us, when you're looking to franchise, that is really what you buy into. You buy into the operational systems, you know, i.e., is this franchise all delivering value? Are they making my life easier? And is there brand equity behind them? So, again, if someone is driving down the highway and they see a signage or a location name, well, again, it's a draw card to come through and, you know, experience that firsthand. So, very, very big on that operational infrastructure behind Futura Brands. We've actually gone about it, in my opinion, in a very, very different way. Traditionally, franchising is, it's all too common where someone will sell a franchise and then build that plane as they're flying it. And what happens, unfortunately, is the franchisee who comes on board is left picking up the pieces, you know, asking for help, putting their hand up and saying, hey, I need access to this, or can you help with this? And the franchise always is still scrambling. And unfortunately, that's just not really a particularly sustainable business. So, what we did at Futura Brands is we made the decision, you know, 12 plus months back to go out and to raise capital, to bring a team together with 70 plus years of franchising experience. And over that 12 months period, we have already built that plane. We have assembled the backbone, the infrastructure, the policy and procedure and operations manual and brand guideline you could expect. And only at that point. This podcast is brought to you by Cayman Data AI. If you sell on Amazon, the profit leaking out of your account is usually hiding in ads, listings and fees nobody had time to check. Join the free AI workshop with Cayman Data AI, where we walk through the plays we run every day. Go to caymandata.com slash free AI workshop. And now, back to the podcast. Time have we now come out and actually put our hand up and said, hey, we're ready to franchise and we're looking for best in class operators to take this to the next level. So again, that sustainability is very, you know, it's been very, very close to my heart. So I'm reading that the search interest in this specific product, if you will, or activity is up 280% year on year. So it is growing extremely fast. I also was reading that while there are exactly, as you said, a thousand courts and about 290 clubs that the original association was founded in Chattanooga, Tennessee, just as early as 93, 1993. And that they're predicting by 2030, there will be over 30,000 courts. That's less than five years away, going from a thousand courts to 30,000 courts. I'd say you're on the early cusp of something that, you know, we're talking about right now and most people have just heard about it, but they're gonna know about it by 2030 in a big way. And you're riding that wave, which is awesome. I think, yeah, we try not to get too excited about the hype. I think you have to take some of those numbers the pinch of salt and always very careful to cut it in half. If it's 15,000 from a thousand, that's a 15 times. How about that? Is that better? So we go 50% to 15,000 by 2030. That's a big jump. Exactly, exactly. Huge jump again. I think it's a huge opportunity here with paddle. What we're really focusing on at the moment is, is paddle today fully bait? Is it ready in its true natural form? And, you know, some of the mistakes that I'm seeing is that if you are just putting in paddle courts in a warehouse on the side of the highways, as is often the case from a variety of clubs you've seen across the country here, is that sticky enough? Is there enough diversification? Is there enough ability to create a community and lifestyle and all of these important things which we know from, you know, from membership marketing and retention is just absolutely critical. And the answer to that is probably no. So again, when we came back to the DNA and the thesis of Futuro Brands is to create this beautiful diversified portfolio within our paddle sweat locations of not just paddle, but reformer Pilates and contrast therapy and food and beverage. So, you know, really maximizing price per square foot, maximizing the build and economies through that GC. This is an activity of a multitude of activities that dry in that demographic that would do those kinds of things relative to it. Yeah, that's smart. It adds a diversified ICP to who could come in and take advantage of it. That's smart. Oh, yeah, sorry, just making sure we were there. I thought we cut out for a second. Okay, so if you are growing and going and we're, I'm just using the US Paddle Association estimates, which they could be totally wrong because again, that might be a hype, but your goal, 1,500, what is your like business plan shooting for you in the next five years to be with us? Great question. For us, we've always said, and I'll say it again, you know, on record, we're not looking for the hockey stick curve. There's, you know, a lot of, you know, founders and entrepreneurs are often looking for. For me, you got to look at what is the long-term play? What is the sustainability behind it? And this sustainable growth for us is just absolutely paramount. The reason we have, again, the three different brands under Futuro Brands itself is that diversification. So the two smaller systems, Core Precinct, Contrast Therapy, a much less complex offering, you know, smaller fit out, less barriers to entry, you know, quicker turnaround, quicker opening. So we have access to real estate there. And, you know, the territory pocket size in terms of density population, as an example of one metric we'd look at, is lesser than, say, a paddle sweat offering. So we believe that we can scale those two smaller systems fairly aggressively across the US, again, in a very sustainable way. With the paddle offering, because it is bigger box, we're talking 25,000 plus, you know, square feet, big box, secondhand retail, more than likely, it does require a larger demographic. So affluency, density population. So when we look at our territory maps, we need to make sure that we're moving into exactly those right pockets that allow the business to be sustainable, not for one year or two years or three years, you know, not even five years, but, you know, you're signing a 10-year lease. So what does 10 plus years and beyond look like? So with the paddle sweat offering, again, we think there's a big upside. I certainly don't think it's, you know, 500 locations across the US. But again, there's a lot of white space there. You know, the appetite and the growth we're seeing to your reference, those numbers, is anywhere near like we're expecting. Yeah, well, it never hurts to have big hairy audacious goals, right? If you can crack the Salt Lake market, there's probably Portland, Seattle, LA, you know, Scottsdale, Austin. I see those kinds of being places where you would really wanna dial in, you know, better weather, year-round kind of opportunities and the type of demographic that really matches up with that, which would be, you know, great fun. And it's family, I assume, it's family-friendly, what you're setting up. Absolutely. Yeah. The best players I've played are youngsters, actually, they're so mobile, they can get around the court and, yeah. Now we're just showing our age, James. Yeah, tell me about it. Yeah, I don't play tennis because I have a bad knee. And I've already had that fun on the court. But I've had fun with pickleball. It's, although it's pretty demanding, it's a pretty demanding sport if you're not careful. And I've had a couple of friends, you know, got hurt playing it, but they really enjoy it. I'm looking at it and just hearing your conversation and enthusiasm and just doing some of the numbers here and I'm going to go do some research for equipment on Amazon. I want to find out if, and I may be showing my hand to anybody listening to this podcast, because I know that quite a few people who got in on the pickleball paddles aspects of that early really did crush it on Amazon and are still doing really well. Yeah, I think one of the major differences between paddle and pickleball from a business point of view is the barriers to entry. Yeah. One of the issues that pickleball has had and will continue to have is, there are no barriers to entry. You see local municipals and councils taking a car park and going on and, you know, rotting down paid and putting down lines and, you know, literally a $50 net for Walmart and you can play pickleball. It's very, very inexpensive and easy to do. And again, credit to it, it's one of the reasons it's seen such growth. And I always say to people, in my opinion, like, you know, I've played sport all my life, the more active human beings, the more people that are moving and playing sport and socializing and getting out of there, like amazing, like credit to it. Pickleball has been wonderful for that. But paddle does have a much higher barrier to entry with the infrastructure, particularly the courts. So the main difference between paddle and pickleball is that paddle is played within a glass box. Okay. And, you know, again, one of the reasons it's so exciting is traditionally where in tennis or pickleball, it's very much a power sport where, as and when you've driven that ball past your opponent, the point is finished. With paddle, it just reflects off the back of the glass and comes back into play. To some extent, it's only just getting going. So a lot of people- Oh, that's fun. So you get to actually play with all of the space in terms of a glass cage. Basically, I'm trying to visualize this. So you literally can play off the walls, if you will. Absolutely. And a lot of people have started pickleball as chess and paddle as checkers. So much more multi-dimensional. You've really got to think about where you need to be ahead of time. You know, positioning of the court is critical, but coming back to that glass court, you know, these are inexpensive. Reinforced glass, steel frame. You know, on a concrete pad, there is a high level of capital required to put these in, which means as of today, we're not seeing the local councils, the municipals putting in these courts, which means the supply is very much controlled from a private infrastructure point of view, which, you know, again, some would argue limits the growth of the sport. If anybody, everybody can't access it, but from a commercial point of view, the economics and AUVs are actually very, very favorable if you get it right. That's awesome, man. Is there a question I didn't ask you about, I didn't think to ask you yet, that you, a topic you wanted to bring up? Like, I think I'm seeing October is national paddle month coming up. Yeah, no, I can't think of any questions. Yeah. Okay, so specifically in terms of the franchise, let's dig into that for the last mile here of the conversation. If someone is interested, what would typically a franchise startup look like, a cost association, a profit split, you know, traditional, you know, franchising to some degree, I expect fits some of your buyer use case. What does that kind of look like for somebody who's like, all right, I might be interested, I might even be wanting to play this, but definitely, you know, from a business perspective, what would they consider? Yeah, I mean, the first thing I'd say is just reach out to us because we'd love to have a conversation beyond looking to grow across to the US again, which we're really, really careful about which markets, which territories we are moving into to make sure this is sustainable for everybody. We have a website, www.futurabrands.com. I also have a LinkedIn profile, James Herlock, H-U-R-L-O-C-K, you know, reach out, you know, let us know more about yourself and we'd love to have that conversation. The cost to get involved with the business does vary, again, depending on the three concepts, whether it's a reform of Pilates concepts or contrast therapy or the paddle offering. In franchising, we do have, you know, very strict laws for the right reasons, FDDs, which stipulate the absolute expected onboarding cost and investment cost where they are arranged there. The reason that range exists is because we have to offer best case scenario and worst case scenario, a lot of that really depends on the brick and mortar and what brick and mortar you're moving into. So, for example, if you're moving into a wall gray shell that, you know, requires very little, you know, demolition and refurbishment, then, of course, that cost is significantly lower than if you're moving into a warehouse that needs complete refurb and, you know, start from the beginning. So, again, that's the FDD. We can talk you through that. But, I mean, look, from an opportunity point of view, you know, we believe it's, again, a lot to be unpacked. Okay, awesome. Well, guys, go check that out at FuturaBrands.com or Futura.com, just want to make sure I said that correctly. www.FuturaBrands.com With an S, perfect. We'll put that in the show notes and obviously it'll go out on the release for all of you who are listening. Definitely check it out from a player perspective and, you know, hit up James on his LinkedIn and check out the website and see what's interesting. If you've got a business gumption and franchising might be down your path and this might be something you want to investigate, I'd certainly check it out. It is obviously fast growing, as we said. There's a lot of growth in somebody who's been involved in it for a long time, who knows what he's doing. And this might be up your alley if something you might consider doing. And I want to thank you for coming on and sharing it with us, James. Absolutely, I appreciate that. And thanks for your time, Neil. It's been great to chat in more detail. Appreciate it. Well guys, as always, like, share, comment, and engage. Help us beat big tech and get it out there. Grab the newsletter. It's free at the link below in the show notes for voltagedm.com forward slash newsletter. Grab all the insights and information. As I always say at the end of this podcast, do something and perfect and something perfect will happen along the way. Till we talk again, stay high voltage. James Herlock showed us that scaling fitness brands is not just about opening more gyms. It's about building systems that work without you in the room. He talked about franchising and how new sports like Padel are changing the wellness landscape. The key takeaway is that you must build infrastructure before you build revenue. If your brand relies on your personal presence, it will not scale. You do not need more e-commerce noise. You need clarity. That's why I created the Voltage e-commerce brief. It cuts through the clutter. You get the five updates that actually matter. We break down what changed in the market. Then we tell you exactly what to do next. It's free every Tuesday and Friday. Go to voltagedm.com slash newsletter to join. It's simple, it's fast. It helps you stay ahead of the curve without burning out. Use this time to build your systems like James discussed. Make your business run on autopilot. We will see you back here tomorrow. Until then, stay high voltage.